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IN-07: Why Machine Politics Is Undemocratic

by: finifinito

Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 22:16:48 PM EST


Cross posted from Monticello Politics

First off, I apologize to all of my readers (both of them!) for the light posting for the last week. I am now finally over the Plague & Pestilence which has reigned over my household for the better part of ten days or so. In the interim though I have been following the local political version of Deal Or No Deal starring Andre "The Juggernaut" Carson and Jon "Not Your Parents' Republican" Elrod via teh blogz and what passes for a news media in Indy these days. Pravda circa 1959 was more objective IMHO.

I was glad to see Wilson Allen's favorite Carson Machinist showed up for the Indiana Equality forum for the candidates last week. It was the first chance many folks had to hear the candidates debate directly and the debate went pretty well for both major candidates and the Libertarian Sean Shepard even got a few pointed jabs in that impressed a few bloggers on both sides of the Hoosiersphere.

What I would like to discuss today though is why I am opposed to Andre Carson's candidacy on a more macro view level. I've got my reasons for not liking Carson politically, but it is his professional record that is most troubling to me. The man has never held a job which Grandma Julia didn't prearrange for him in his life. Now that Grandma has passed on to the Congress in the sky and her last wishes were to see "her seed" ascend to her seat (feudalism! YAY!), we see the Carson Machine has swung into full force in backing their candidate of choice.  

finifinito :: IN-07: Why Machine Politics Is Undemocratic
First, the Machine swept up as much cash as they could broom out of Washington DC where all the lobbyists with an interest in a variety of special interest legislation eagerly grabbed their checkbooks and attended a fundraiser thrown on his behalf by no less than Speaker Nancy Pelosi. In machine politics actual positions on issues have absolutely no meaning whatsoever since those positions will be dictated to you by your new friends the lobbyist attorneys from K Street, Dewey Cheatham and Howe, LLC.

Then the Machine swooped in and grabbed up as many union endorsements as possible, this all before a website was even built or a position paper even conceived of. No need for grassroots volunteers, the union brothers and sisters will man the phones at the phone bank and distribute the propag....uh campaign literature for him.

Next came ad buys from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, or the D Triple C as they are called. Think of the DCCC as the WalMart of campaign finance for Democrats. You don't get in to see someone from the DCCC unless they want to see you or you have to know someone who works with them on another campaign. This means Carson doesn't have to spend a dime as much on ads for his special election because his good friends at the DCCC are footing the bill for him (h/t to Vox Populi, thanks for correcting me) so he can stockpile his money that he raises to slam other Democrats in the upcoming 2 month Civil War reenactment starting on March 12th.

Thomas Jefferson, whose home Monticello is the inspiration for the name of this blog, famously spoke against the participation of political parties in our Republic. Political parties, Jefferson argued, were anathema to the democratic principles upon which This Great Country Of Ours was founded. He was right, every political party in the history of the United States has chosen the path of the partisan bickering and skullduggery we have come to expect from our alleged leaders. This is why good people with great leadership skills go into other lines of work where they can do some good. See Al Gore if you need an explanation for this.

Machine politicians like Andre Carson do not look upon public service as a calling, they look upon it as a stepping stone toward a wealthy future role as a lobbyist or consultant for the next generation of partisan hacks who wander the halls of Congress with fists full of dollars stuffed into their pants pockets by the previous generation of hacks who now work for Big Pharma, Big Media, Big Tobacco, Big Oil and Big Finance. The Machine needs Oiled, by jove and fresh blood is required from time to time to oil it. Squeaky wheels get the grease and so on.

All of this adds up to a system so broken and confuzzled to the average man and woman that they simply throw their hands up and vote for the Machine backed candidate because the noise generated by the Machine is so loud they can't be ignored. Most people just want to have some peace and quiet in their lives and when the echo chamber gets wound up good and loud they will do anything to shut it off so they can watch the real Deal Or No Deal instead of the circus in which we find ourselves the poor lions jumping through flaming hoops.

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Hmmm... (0.00 / 0)
I guess Grandma Julia didn't live long enough to stepping-stone her way into a lobbyist position, then?  

But, hey.  This is all moot; haven't you heard?  President Obama's going to do away with all lobbyists and special interests!  And it won't even matter who we send to Congress, because I'm sure one listen to Obama, and they will be compelled to advance whatever progressive agenda he deigns to put forward!

Obama Position on Illegal Spying: Worse Than Bush


As that guy on The Wire says.... (0.00 / 0)
Sheeeeeeeyyyyyiiiiiiiiittttt! Obama doing away with lobbyists and special interests is about as possible as Darth Cheney going on Larry King and admitting he was Osama Bin Forgotten's gay lover.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Don't tell me, tell the befuddled Democratic electorate! (1.00 / 1)
I passed U.S. Government class in highschool, and I've been paying attention the past 7 years, so that's not news to me ;)

Obama Position on Illegal Spying: Worse Than Bush

[ Parent ]
Just because people vote for Obama... (0.00 / 0)
...does not mean they're stupid, Mario.  I think there are legitimate arguments to made against Obama as a candidate (as there are against Clinton), but I don't think it's necessary to insult people who may have thoughtfully come to a conclusion that is different than yours.

I am not a yellow dog Democrat, nor am I a blue dog Democrat.  I am a progressive Democrat and being progressive is more important than being a Democrat to me.

[ Parent ]
Befuddled doesn't mean stupid (0.00 / 0)
Obama supporters are thrilled to be told what they want to hear.  Like many Americans, they love to be told Yes while not being asked to make any sacrifices. Obama supporters are overly idealistic to a fault and have a very limited understanding of the way our Congress and governemnt operate.  If you're an Obama supporter, I'm sorry to inform you that the reality doesn't jive with his rhetoric.  

Obama Position on Illegal Spying: Worse Than Bush

[ Parent ]
You know this to be true of all Obama supporters? (0.00 / 0)
I think there is some "irrational exuberance" on the part of some Obama supporters.  I also know some Clinton supporters who have a hard time admitting here faults.  Your generalization of Obama supporters (and I am one, now that Edwards is out of the race) is inaccurate, insulting and unhelpful.  

And, just because I think Obama is our best choice of a candidate for the 2008 Presidential election does not mean I don't respect Hilary.  I do respect her greatly but think she has run a poor, divisive campaign.  I also think that much of the Hilary "hate" is unwarranted, sexist and just plain sad.

I am not a yellow dog Democrat, nor am I a blue dog Democrat.  I am a progressive Democrat and being progressive is more important than being a Democrat to me.


[ Parent ]
No, not all of his supporters (0.00 / 0)
I'm not going to apologize for reacting to what I see as a huge mistake by the Democratic electorate. And I'm not going to even consider rallying around Obama until Hillary is out of the race.  Sorry, but this is a contested primary.

Say what you want about his policy proposals, his conduct on the campaign trail, etc. But his message is fundamentally flawed.  He advocates rising above politics even as he engages in the very same politics he condemns Hillary for.  He puts forward promises about bi-partisanship that are so neglectful of the reality and history of politics that it not only boggles the mind, it is insulting.  After the great gains we made in 2006, we're wasting all of our political capital on an unvetted, roll of the dice, beauty contest candidate.  I'm furious that Republicans are making shrewd decisions while the Democrats are chasing a dream and living a fairytale.  But whatever, prove me wrong, electorate.

Obama Position on Illegal Spying: Worse Than Bush


[ Parent ]
Joh (4.00 / 1)
Just as a point of fact, the Carson campaign is financing all the ads that have Andre Carson in them.  The DCCC can run ads opposing Elrod and supporting the Democratic candidate, but it is seperate from the Carson campaign.

Hoosier Progressive

Thanks, fixed it (4.00 / 1)
I was wrong on that point, thanks for pointing that out. Wilson's head may explode when he reads this exchange though. Say something mean now just to restore balance to The Force.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Willful ignorance (0.00 / 0)
Recently Joh posted a suggestion perhaps Auditor Billie Breaux might make a good Congressional candidate based on her 10 years in the Indiana House and her lack of taint of corruption associated with the Carson Machine. I love Billie and she'd be a great Congresslady.

What upset me was Joh's real ignorance.

1. Billie Breaux served 15 years as Senator.

2. She is an integral part of the Carson Machine. I should know: I've been her campaign Treasurer for 18 years now.

3. Taint of corruption by the Carson Machine??? Those are GOP words, slung around by Jocelyn Tandy, Darla Y Williams and their white counterpart: Gary Welsh.

Later Joh called Julia Carson embarrassing. He didnt say why. Was he embarrassed that she had a more liberal voting record than Maxine Waters or Barney Frank? Was he embarrassed that she'd built up in opposition to the downtown power brokers a formidable neighborhood-based political organization? She was famous in politics for her ability to "Get Out The Vote", for her "ground war". The money boys had their TV, Julia had her people!

Sadly, Joh wants to pontificate from on high, isolated from the real rough, tough & tumble world of street level politics. He wants to Rage Against The Machine, the same "machine" that has always fought for the poor and working person, for children, for the disabled. He airily lumps André Carson together with Tom Delay and declares himself pure. Sad ... very sad!

Somehow in Joh's jeremaiad, he conveniently overlooks any denunciation of John Elrod's Bushzoid politics...


Please allow me to retort (4.00 / 1)
What upset me was Joh's real ignorance.

1. Billie Breaux served 15 years as Senator.

2. She is an integral part of the Carson Machine. I should know: I've been her campaign Treasurer for 18 years now.

3. Taint of corruption by the Carson Machine??? Those are GOP words, slung around by Jocelyn Tandy, Darla Y Williams and their white counterpart: Gary Welsh.

Later Joh called Julia Carson embarrassing. He didnt say why.


1. OK, I'm man enough to admit I misspoke. I knew that she was a Senator but must have jumbled that point whenever it was I made it. My bad. I've known Billie Breaux since before she got elected and we were both active members of the Warren Township Democratic Club in the early 90s. She was also my Ward Vice Chair when I was a precinct committeeman way back when too.

2. I know she is part of the Carson Machine. I also know she disagreed with Julia's tactics and privately berated her on numerous occasions. This is why I feel she would be a good compromise candidate to heal the divisions between the Machine and the rest of us.

3. Taint of corruption are not GOP words, though you do tend to find that crowd you wish to tie me to using those words often to describe Monroe Gray, Kenneth Ackles and other associates of Julia who have been proven corrupt by objective standards.

4. Julia in her final years had numerous embarrassing moments. When she rose to speak in praise of the Indianapolis Colts upon their Super Bowl victory last year she made the following statement:

I come today to congratulate the Indianapolis Colts, who are in my district. See, we have good things in my district. They are not all drive-by shootings.

Another embarrassing fact is that long before it was disclosed she was suffering from serious debilitating health issues which would eventually turn out to be her demise she made an appearance before the cameras of CSPAN during the "Surge" debate of last year in which she is obviously suffering, displaying slurred speech and almost incoherent during her time at the microphone. With no prior disclosure of the extent of her health issues or the medications she was on at the time, several right wing bloggers took the video which appeared on YouTube and ran with it, sullying her name in attacks which included accusations of drug or alcohol abuse. In this case the embarrassment was not so much caused by her appearance so much as it was embarrassment on her behalf.

Finally, her last embarrassing act came at her funeral where the racist, homophobic Louis Farrakhan was requested by her to eulogize her. That she would ask that he not only attend, but also speak before her loved ones, friends and constituents who loved her showed a total lack of regard for the GLBT and caucasian communities that he has railed against for his entire life.

Finally, I know all about the rough and tumble world of street level politics. As I mentioned before I served my time as a precinct committeeman in 1991-1993 until I left the position disgusted by the antics of Julia and her Center Township cohorts who to this day are some of the most corrupt cronyistic politicians I have ever witnessed in this city. I felt then as I do now there is no point to my working for the Marion County Democratic Party so long as the leadership will overlook the corrupt practices of the Carson Machine. My time is better spent working outside the party system organizing progressive communities online and offline.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson


More confusions (0.00 / 0)
"I've known Billie Breaux since before she got elected and we were both active members of the Warren Township Democratic Club in the early 90s."

Ms. Billie Breaux was elected in 1990. She never lived in Warren Township but in Center.  


[ Parent ]
Go ask her (0.00 / 0)
She did live in Center Township, on or just off of Arlington Avenue at the time I believe in fact, because she lived not too far from me where I lived at 30th and Arlington. Warren Township was the closest Democratic Club in those days unless we wanted to cross town to go to the Westside or Southside clubs.

My brother Mike Padgett and I went to every meeting for a couple of years in the early 90s, so did Billie. Mike was Joe Hogsett's Securities Commissioner, then his Deputy Secretary of State until Hogsett left office. He then went on to become one of Governor Evan Bayh's deputies.

I was one of the youngest precinct captains in the state at the time, appointed to my home precinct at the age of 19. Hell I probably interacted with you back in the day too when I was volunteering on the Louis Mahern for Mayor and Clinton campaigns in 91-92. I was a student at Columbia School of Broadcasting at the time and volunteered for every campaign I could in those days.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Senator Billie Breaux (0.00 / 0)
The lady was first elected in December 1990 while living in Center on 35th Street - Senate District 34 includes part of Warren so wisely she attended the Warren Dem Club. Having done many mailings for her back then, I do vaguely recall a Padgett on the lists. There was a major, bruising Primary fight in 1992 for Senator - that's why it was very odd that you said she was an Indiana House member elected in 1997 or so.

Yes, I did just speak to her about your accusations about Julia -- she was rather saddened to hear of it...

You dropped out in 1993 - that sounds like the time of the Tuttle defeat for Constable...


[ Parent ]
By the way. (0.00 / 0)
You never answered my question.  When you, Julia, and Billie ran against the Democratic Party's endorsed candidate in 1992, were you all "frozen out" as you suggested the PC's supporting Orentlicher will be?

Hoosier Progressive

[ Parent ]
Frozen out? (0.00 / 0)
Nope! As elected committeepeople, we couldn't be. The losing side was too weak to send volunteers into our precincts too. Senator Bille Breaux won the election - victory salves a lot of wounds. Trustee Julia Carson had a large staff - she remained too important to be frozen out for long. True, we weren't invited into Democratic Party tactical meetings during that Primary Election cycle but we nevertheless had "observers" who reported all. It was fun: Julia even got Governor Evan Bayh to help Billie! Lots of chips were pulled in and paid out. Complex but worthwhile!

[ Parent ]
It wasn't the Tuttle defeat (0.00 / 0)
I dropped out after the PCs gathered and selected Vanessa Summers Barnes to replace the legislator who died in office that year. I was lobbied heavily by Julia's associates on behalf of Vanessa and found the entire process so distasteful I decided to leave the party for a while.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Vanessa? (0.00 / 0)
I did all the campaign materials for that election: to this day I remember using gray parchment stationery for our letters to remind folk of recently-deceased Representative Joseph Summers.

Representative Vanessa Summers has worked out well -- she rarely has any opposition in either the Primary or the General.

I still wonder how you were involved in that election: Vanessa's District is the northwest corner of Center Township: you lived at least six miles away.


[ Parent ]
I'm So Tired... (4.00 / 1)
Of hearing about how Andre got a job because of Julia. Can you provide proof of this?

This type of rhetoric is straight out of the Gary Welsh playbook.

As far as the nepotism charge, I'd LOVE to go to law school, but my daddy was a drunk, not an attorney. Nepotism is just a fact of life.

Lets go down the list:

The Bush family
The Clintons
The Kennedys
The Bayhs
The Jacobs
The Gores

...shall I go on?

The "Carson machine" that you claim is undemocratic is working the system. It's called POLITICS! You're expecting politicians not to engage in politics?

Using Jefferson as the epitome of virtuous politics is simply a whitewashing of history. Jefferson had a machine of his own. Jefferson and Hamilton engaged in some of the nastiest yellow journalism out that has ever existed in American politics. It was dirty politics at its ugliest.

What needs to be talked about are the differences in policy positions between those running, then pissing and moaning about these irrelevant issues.

But what do I know, I'm just a grassroots Carson volunteer.  


Elrod Dynasty (4.00 / 1)
1. Grandpa French Elrod,attorney and GOP County Commmissioner

2. Daddy Robert Elrod, attorney and longtime GOP counsel to the CC Council

3. Grandson Jonathon Elrod, attorney and GOP candidate for Congress

Jonathon Elrod's only employment has been 5 years in Daddy's law firm...

Sounds kinda nepotistical to most observers!


[ Parent ]
"Working the System" (0.00 / 0)
Gene Honeycutt was Julia's campaign manager in 1996 when she ran and won the seat for Congress. As a reward for that work he was given the post of State Excise Police Chief, where he hired Andre. Honeycutt was later thoroughly investigated for corruption because of his involvement with a stripper from Brad's Gold Club who he was schtupping in exchange for looking the other way on violations at Brad Hirst's clubs. That investigation also looked into the hiring of Andre and his cousin by Honeycutt to work as Excise Police.

The reason I remember this so well is that I worked at Brad's Gold Club as day shift DJ from Sept 97 to March 99. The Honeycutt story broke in May 99. I remembered seeing Honeycutt and Andre in the Gold Club together on numerous occasions, knowing that they were Excise Police because they would show their badges to my friend the doorman and were let in for free on orders from Brad like anyone else who would show a badge. I remembered Andre from when we were both in the same circles in the late 80s because of our mutual involvement in the nascent rap music scene in Indy, him as a rapper and me as a DJ back then. Andre grew up near one of the rappers who used my music back then.


"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
I'm sorry (4.00 / 1)
but what you have there is complete speculation.   The fact that Andre was at Brad's Gold doesn't prove a damn thing, nor do you have any actual evidence of any wrongdoing.

I'm with Marti.  This is all baseless speculation.  It's bullshit and it's low.

The only person who actually investigated this -- a partisan Republican prosecutor -- found no evidence of wrongdoing on Andre's part.  Or do you buy into Gary Welsh's paranoid conspiracy theory about Scott Newman being in-cahoots with Julia as well?

If this is actually how you think it went, I have no idea how to engage you.  You don't distinguish between speculation and evidence, so how am I supposed to persuade you you are mistaken?


[ Parent ]
Go figure (0.00 / 0)
I personally witnessed him in the bar with Honeycutt on several occasions. I never said he did anything wrong like get drunk or anything, you jumped to that assumption, not I. I just said I saw him in the bar which happened to be where Honeycutt was hooking up with one of my coworkers.

Keep in mind this is my proof that you asked for above thusly:

I'm So Tired...  
Of hearing about how Andre got a job because of Julia. Can you provide proof of this?

You asked for proof about how Andre got a job because of Julia. There you go. His job was with the Excise Police, hired by a corrupt as hell crony of Julia. How is that speculation? It would be speculation if I said I heard he went to the Gold Club with Honeycutt. Its not speculation, I saw him there with my own eyes. That is called evidence.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Speculation (4.00 / 1)
You asked for proof about how Andre got a job because of Julia. There you go. His job was with the Excise Police, hired by a corrupt as hell crony of Julia. How is that speculation?

Actually, this is the definition of speculation.  You didn't sit in on the interviews.  You didn't read his application.  You don't know who the other applicants were, or how many there were.  In fact, you know absolutely nothing about the process other than a single fact which you then proceed to spin to your preferred conclusion.

So I'll repeat myself: the one individual who didn't just speculate about this, the one who actually investigated and examined the accusation of favoritism -- that would be Republican Prosecutor Scott Newman -- did not reach your conclusion.  He concluded that there was no evidence of wrongdoing.  There were no facts to suggest that favoritism had played a role in the hiring.


[ Parent ]
André at Brads often? (0.00 / 0)
As a new-hire, it's not inconceivable that he might go out with his boss occasionally. André has told me he's never been drunk ever in his life. I believe him. He is such the Dudley-DoRight -- an original Goody-Goody-TwoShoes (size 14). Everybody who knows him knows he's such a straight-arrow.

This story was covered well on TV and the papers. André's name was never connected to any of this hithertofore...


[ Parent ]
I only saw him a couple of times (0.00 / 0)
I never saw him drunk, I never saw him be anything but professional, those are not the issues here. The issue is evidence concerning corrupt cronys of Julia hiring a youngster with no law enforcement experience, no investigative experience and no training to do a job that should be handled by experienced LEOs.

And don't be so disingenuous Wilson, Andre and Sam's names were mentioned several times in the Star in connection with the first stories about that scandal, then their names were kept out of later stories as the focus turned onto the stripper and Honeycutt. The Star has kept your Machine humming along for a very long time by underreporting the corruption associated with it.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson


[ Parent ]
Corrupt Democratic Prosecutors (0.00 / 0)
Oh yeah - the Ryerson Red Star Rag! That and the bought and paid for corrupt Democratic Machine Prosecutors like Steve Goldsmith, Scott Newman and Carl Brizzi?

Have you borrowed Mike Jerzierski's and Gary Welsh's tinfoil hats? You are writing like them now!


[ Parent ]
Well look at that! (0.00 / 0)
An Obama supporter admitting that politics is part of our governmental process!  But this is all over and done with as soon as he's inaugurated, right?

Obama Position on Illegal Spying: Worse Than Bush

[ Parent ]
Why labor supports André Carson (0.00 / 0)
Democratic candidate André Carson speaks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Jon Elrod has a demonstrably anti-union voting record in the Legislature. Labor knows Elrod's no friend of the working people of the 7th CD.  


John Conyers disagrees with Joh Padgett (0.00 / 0)
Progressive Congressman John Conyers sent out online the following endorsement of André Carson:

Like many of you, I am excited for the opportunity to move our country in a new direction this November.  

Luckily, we have the chance to bring a progressive new voice to Washington right now.  On March 11th there will be a special election to fill the Congressional seat in the 7th Congressional District of Indiana.  If you and I act together now, we can help elect Indianapolis Councilman Andre Carson, a tireless leader for change.

Believe me, I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think Andre's campaign needed and deserved your immediate help.  Andre has spent nearly a decade serving his community in law enforcement and working to solve the challenges facing the people of Indianapolis.  He would make an outstanding addition to our Democratic Majority in Congress.
...
Andre stands for putting an end to George Bush's endless war in Iraq, bringing fairness to our justice system, keeping our country safe, and providing our kids with the education they'll need to compete for the new jobs of tomorrow.

Andre Carson is also a committed advocate for protecting social security and Medicare. While his Republican opponent has announced his support for privatizing social security, Andre Carson has made a pledge to fight any attempts to privatize social security and instead work to strengthen and protect it for the long term.
...
With your help, we will get Andre Carson's powerful voice in Congress - and an effective leader for change not just in 2008 but for years to come.

He has my support. I hope you will give him yours. Thanks for lending a hand and thank you for your continued support for a better democracy.


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