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Race, representation, and the 7th District primary

by: Thomas

Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 09:04:46 AM EDT


There can be no denying that Andre Carson's victory a few weeks ago was due in no small part to his support within the African American community. His winning margin of votes wasn't just padded by the Center Township turnout -- it was created by it.

Thus begging the question: With two other heavy-hitters from the black community on the ballot in May, will Carson be able to consolidate the vote he received in March and translate it into his second electoral triumph in as many months? Or, as some have suggested, will Rep. David Orentlicher (or someone else) benefit from a fractured Democratic base and sweep in for a surprise win?

A lot of questions, many of which Brendan O'Shaughnessy attempts to address in today's Star article that focuses on the potential for a divided African American vote due to the contentious primary:

Myers and Mays confirmed they felt pressure to help settle on a single candidate but declined to do so.

"The only reason to step aside is if you think the voters should vote for someone else," Myers said.

"I think the community should have a voice (in electing their representative), not just a few select people," Mays said.

[...]

Carson said he's confident he can win again, despite the crowded field.

"African-American voters are very astute politically," he said the day after his victory in the special election. "That's OK that there are challengers. We're moving forward."

Orentlicher, at his Northwestside campaign headquarters last week, said, "It would be unfortunate if people vote strictly on identity politics. We should choose based on views, experience, work ethic and a willingness to take on hard issues."

This might also be a good time to remind everyone that the aforementioned congressional candidate Woody Myers will be dropping by next week to talk about his campaign and the issues that he believes make him the best candidate for the 7th District.
Thomas :: Race, representation, and the 7th District primary
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one thing is certain (0.00 / 0)
if andre carson wins, gary welsh will never accept the outcome.

Amos Brown (0.00 / 0)
has an informed commentary on the 7th CD race at
http://tinyurl.com/2rpxxp

Thanks for the link -- (0.00 / 0)
But aside from the obvious financial ties -- which I don't make as much of as some of the more conspiratorial forces in the blogosphere -- I don't really understand why Amos thinks that Carolene poses the biggest threat to anyone.

As near as I can tell, she has had zero visibility.

Does she have a ground operation or some other infrastructure building going on behind the scenes? She is the only candidate who I don't hear anything significant about.


[ Parent ]
I agree that Mays is THE threat to Carson (0.00 / 0)
Her political base is in Pike Township, a place where Carson did very well.  She has deep ties in that area and she will win it in May, I have no question.

Why is that important?  Carson won Pike with big numbers in the special election.  He needs those voters to stay with him.

Hoosier Progressive


[ Parent ]
Lula Patton (0.00 / 0)
The political "queen" of Pike is Trustee Lula Patton: she is firmly on Congressman André Carson's side. The votes will be there for the slated incumbent.

An Indiana House district is about 1/10 of a Congressional District. Carolene Mays may have some residual influence in her former district but in the bigger scheme of things, it's pretty small potatoes...

Same with Orentlicher: he'll have some support from the voters in the middle third of his former House district. The northern third is out of the district and solidly GOP. The southern third is solidly Black working-class which'll go for Congressman André Carson.  


[ Parent ]
Yes, but... (0.00 / 0)
...it's not like Andre had a huge sphere of influence prior to the end of last year. I know you say he was with his grandmother for years, but politically he wasn't really on anyone's radar screen in terms of legislative legitimacy.

I'm not disputing your point regarding where these candidates will start, but rather the idea that a small area of influence can't be leveraged with the right kind of money fueling the right kind of campaign.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's not outside the realm of reason.


[ Parent ]
Surprise! (0.00 / 0)
I think it would be fair to say that Mays, Orentlicher and Myers did not expect the solid support and coalition that André Carson was able to build so quickly. By his organizational skills, he pre-empted any significant Democratic political support going to the challengers. They are now left solely to amassing sufficient cash to buy airtime and labor to run a winning campaign. Carson's early start allowed him to define himself first to the voters and win the Special Election solidly.

Now he's the incumbent Democratic Congressman from Indianapolis - the task of the multiple challengers is to convince voters to dump him in favor of somebody else. Won't be easy to do!


[ Parent ]
Not to nitpick or anything -- (0.00 / 0)
By his organizational skills, he pre-empted any significant Democratic political support going to the challengers.
I think the few hundred thousand chipped in by the DCCC probably helped, and the fact that they are still on the ground in the district doesn't exactly say a whole lot about their confidence level.

[ Parent ]
I repeat: organizational skills (0.00 / 0)
I doubt if any of the seven challengers would disdain the DCCC support. It's damn useful. It took practical political abilities and skills by André Carson to get it in the first place!

[ Parent ]
Sure -- (0.00 / 0)
But the vocal and unwavering support of the CBC couldn't have hurt during that process, either.

I'm not questioning the effectiveness of the "Carson machine" or its ability to get things done -- I guess my question is whether the support that Andre earned will be enough to hold together that coalition over the next month or so.


[ Parent ]
Light of the World (0.00 / 0)
Today Congressman André Carson attended Easter services at Light of the World, a leading westside megachurch. The minister, Bishop T.G. Benjamin, gave as close an endorsement as the IRS will allow from the pulpit to Congressman Carson. Allegedly Mays had tried real hard for that very important statement of support but Congressman Carson got it!

You appear to have... (0.00 / 0)
...Gary all worked up over this comment, Wilson.

I know I'm supposed to be all over the anti-Gary bandwagon, but I am curious to hear your response to his post.


[ Parent ]
A sad quote: (0.00 / 0)
Candidates weren't allowed to campaign in the Methodist church at which I attended when I was growing up, and that's the way it should be.

Gary Welsh was raised in the small southern Illinois town of Marshall which was 98% Caucasian. He just never grew up...


[ Parent ]
Church services (0.00 / 0)
Who died and made Gary Welsh bishop?

[ Parent ]
Andre's Ministers of Hate (0.00 / 0)
Is an endorsement by Fred Phelps far behind?  Too many more of these endorsements and one might begin to question Carson's loyalty to GLBT voters.

Hoosier Progressive

[ Parent ]
Language (0.00 / 0)
Having Orentlicher fanboys calling Rev. T.G. Benjamin a "Minister of Hate" will be politically fatal in the African-American community.  

[ Parent ]
I'm pretty sure... (0.00 / 0)
...that blog comments aren't going to make or break this election.

[ Parent ]
tru dat (0.00 / 0)
Nevertheless, such inflammatory language as calling Rev. T.G. Benjamin a "Minister of Hate" in real life by zealous Orentlicher fanboys would be really deleterious to any chances of winning African-American supporters or voters...

Calling Congressman André Carson "the bottom of the barrel" is another surefire way of alienating voters...


[ Parent ]
Bottom of the Barrel ... (0.00 / 0)
Actually, I'm just summing up the Indianapolis Star's interpretation of Mr. Carson.

And I'm not a zealot for anyone.  I plan on working the streets for David, but would be equally happy with Dr. Myers.  I only wish my State Representative, Greg Porter, had been permitted to run by Center Township Machine because I could have easily voted for him.

Oh, and how many African American voters can tell me who T.G. Benjamin is?  Other than those who go to his church?  Thought so.

Hoosier Progressive


[ Parent ]
Bishop T. Garret Benjamin (0.00 / 0)
is the longtime pastor of the biggest African-American Church in Indianapolis. Only ignorant isolated fools would imagine that he is known only to members of his own church. He has long been a leader of interfaith and ecumenical activities in Indianapolis.

Trying to run-down and put-down T. Garret Benjamin is done only by the most foolhardy and foolish white folk.  


[ Parent ]
Anti-gay minister... (0.00 / 0)
Tell me, Wilson, what Mr. Benjamin has to say about gays...

Hoosier Progressive

[ Parent ]
Gary gets it right sometimes... (0.00 / 1)
Like when he came across this quote from your beloved bigot, T.G. Benjamin:

The most dastardly thing about homosexuality is silly silly homosexuals going around trying to convince people that what they're doing is normal. That's the sin; the abomination. Instead of saying I have a serious problem and I am struggling with it and I know that it is wrong . . . Homosexuality is a spirit of the underworld and you who collaborate with that spirit collaborate with the devil himself. But be careful on who you think is a homosexual and who is not. Everybody that is effeminate is not a homosexual, they just didn't have the kind of parenting where a father said 'son take that switch out yo' walk boy, son we don't walk like that, or bend like that either.' The first time a father sees his son do his wrist like this he needs to take his hand and say .....uh............uh...........here. Your wrist goes like this. Men don't talk up here (high). It's a choice, you can change, you can choose, you can choose. Every effeminate person is not gay and every weight lifter is not straight. He might be the biggest girl in the city." Uproarious laughter breaks out in the congregation.

Considering that Carson has said that being gay is a lifestyle choice, it seems he's certainly running with the right flock.  It just gives the gay community even less reason to trust him.

And that choice excerpt from your bigoted pastor isn't Gary's creation, it's from a neutral organization dedicated to pointing out homophobia in the black churches.  Here's a link.

Hoosier Progressive


[ Parent ]
Of course... (0.00 / 0)
...as Wilson will no doubt note, Gary was nowhere to be seen when Jon Elrod went and made a campaign stop at Benjamin's church. He gets it right sometimes, but generally only when it is convenient to his anti-Carson mantra.

I will say that I don't think this is a big issue, though. Notable, perhaps, in the echo chamber online, but I don't think most people will care one way or the other for better or worse.


[ Parent ]
Oh, I agree (0.00 / 0)
Gary is kind of a hypocrite on the issue.  And right-wing pastors get a ton of scrutiny on this issue.  Will it matter outside the tubes we call the Internets?  Possibly.  Andre already harbors a lot of distrust in the gay community.  Tying himself together with Benjamin, after getting endorsed by Farrakhan, will only deepen that distrust.

Hoosier Progressive

[ Parent ]
I don't think he was really banking on the GLBT vote... (0.00 / 0)
...in May, anyway.

[ Parent ]
Gary Welsh and Vox Republicani (0.00 / 0)
two peas in a pod

[ Parent ]
... (0.00 / 1)
Your slurs are getting as washed out as you are, old man.  The bigot Bishop says you're going to burn in Hell, that your lifestyle choice is an abomination.  And you defend him for it.  You're a sad old man.

Hoosier Progressive

[ Parent ]
The Orentlicher Fanboys (0.00 / 0)
are ratcheting up the religious and racial divisions and hatred. It will not help the candidate one whit!

Pitiful...


[ Parent ]
You have a double standard, Vox (0.00 / 0)
How is one trip to this guy's church so problematic for you, but Obama's close relationship with Jeremiah Wright isn't?

ELLSWORTH FOR SENATE 2010

[ Parent ]
It's not a double standard. (0.00 / 1)
Obama denounced and rejected Louis Farrakhan, and he denounced Rev. Wright's bigoted language.  Andre has neither rejected nor denounced Farrakhan, and he definitely won't reject Benjamin's bigoted comments.  Even more, Carson agrees with the bigoted Bishop when he says that being gay is a mere lifestyle choice.

That's where I have a problem.

Hoosier Progressive


[ Parent ]
The Welsh Syndrome (0.00 / 1)
Alas! Poor Vox Republicani has succumbed to the Gary Welsh Syndrome wherein the unfortunate victim swirls further and further into dementia the closer and closer Election Day comes. Rationality and common decency fly out the window while delusions, ravings and lies overtake the frothings of the hysterical sufferer. Luckily, Vox Republicani will subside into quiescence May 7th and merely sob in his beer for a week or so...

[ Parent ]
Where are the lies? (0.00 / 1)
"Delusions, ravings and lies" requires some evidence on your part.  Andre Carson did say being gay was a lifestyle choice.  Do you dispute that?  He has neither condemned nor rejected Farrakhan.  Do you dispute that?

Hoosier Progressive

[ Parent ]
Repeated Lies (0.00 / 0)
Both the "Lifestyle choice" canard and the Farrakhan issue has been dealt with repeatedly but the poor victims of "The Welsh Syndrome" endlessly and mindlessly repeat the nonsense. "Delusional" is the kind word decent citizens use to describe the sorely afflicted like Vox Republicani. The refusal to face political reality and truth is one of the clinical symptoms.

The only known cure is Election Day when the slime and slanders are rendered moot by the voters ignoring the mudslinging from the Welsh Syndrome outpatients...


[ Parent ]
Two things: (0.00 / 0)
1.)  Obama never would have denounced Rev. Wright's sermons if they hadn't' come to light.  Further, Obama wouldn't have had to denounce them if he hadn't been attending Wright's church for two decades.

2.) Andre has a fine line to walk when discussing gay rights.  Historically, the black community is not always sympathetic to equal rights for gays.  It's a sad truth.  We all know he's going to vote the right way on the issue, though, just like his grandmother.

ELLSWORTH FOR SENATE 2010


[ Parent ]
His grandmother talked about gay rights... (0.00 / 0)
She was a tireless defender of those rights.  If he's worried about offending people, he doesn't deserve a leadership role.  So he either believes that being gay is a choice, like the Bigoted Bishop, or he believes in equality.

And we don't "all know" how he's going to vote.  I honestly believe if given the chance he'll throw his gay constituents under the bus.  Orentlicher and Myers have a more demonstrated commitment to our rights.

Hoosier Progressive


[ Parent ]
It's obvious to me he believes in equality (0.00 / 0)
Anyone who throws gays under the bus isn't going to serve the 7th district very long.  Even the Republicans know this. Andre's not going to throw anyone under the bus, and I'm thrilled to vote for him three times in one year.

ELLSWORTH FOR SENATE 2010

[ Parent ]
Mays is the only candidate I really have a problem with (0.00 / 0)
She seems unnecessarily conservative for this district.

I'm also not crazy about the idea of an Indiana delegation made up entirely of white men.  I'm going with the incumbent; Andre seems like a good fit for the 7th and an all-around nice guy.  Plus, I still heart Julia!

ELLSWORTH FOR SENATE 2010


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